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momijizukamori) wrote2021-05-12 04:11 pm
momijizukamori) wrote2021-05-12 04:11 pm
Costume Analysis - Heipaoshi (modern ver)
Someone on the Guardian discord asked a question about what fabric Shen Wei's modern Heipaoshi robes were made of, and I'm incapable of shutting up about costumes and fell down a rabbithole of research, and decided to just make a big meta post. Basically a more organized version of what my research/planning process is for cosplay, lol
- The bit with the actual hood, and honestly most of what we see (and thus what I have the most to talk about, haha)
Fabrics
- The main body fabric is a heavy fabric with a heavy, uneven weft. A friend suggested raw silk tussah, or the synthetic equivalent thereof, which seems the most likely, given the drape
- The main body fabric is also used to line the hood, and as facing strips on the front and sleeves
- In the less-exposed bits of the inside, it's using a cheap poly lining fabric (but if you wanted to be fancy, silk habotai or a silk-cotton blend would be fitting)
- Edges are finished with bias tape in what is either a very dull satin weave fabric, or a slightly lustrous plain weave fabric (like a habotai). This is also used for some spots of detailing on the main body (more on that later in construction notes)
- The yoke is also in a fabric with a similar finish to the bias trim (though I don't think it's quite the same fabric, going off where the trim butts against the yoke on the front).
- Coming off the back yoke, there's a seperate drapey cape piece, which is some type of gauze, either a cotton gauze or wool gauze
Construction
- Overall, the robe is kind of an interesting mix of traditional elements and fairly modern ones.
- Sleeves: very much a traditional shape, and designed for aesthetics rather than praticality (practical sleeves tend to be narrower, particularly around the wrist - it's possible to tie back longer sleeves like this, but we don't see Shen Wei do that)
- The hood is constructed in three pieces - the rounded side shapes, and then a big rectangular center panel. A good design strategy to get a nice full hood!
- As far as I can tell, the the gauze panel is loose overlay on top of a main-body fabric back panel that attaches to the sides (like how tops are generally constructed). Both layers do appear to have a center slit up the back, which gives you a little more freedom of movement (and also looks more dramatic).
- There are some interesting bits of bias trim on the body - at the edge of the yoke, and another strip around where the waistline would be. These seem to be just decorative, and read as very modern to me
- The detailing on the shoulders and hood is most likely a rayon cord that has been laid into shapes and then tacked into place - though there's also a possibility that it was done as a padded satin stitch, most likely on an embroidery machine (it's possible to get satin stitch that smooth by hand, but it requires a lot of skill and a lot of time). But there's bumps that definitely look like tack stitches.
- Also worth noting - the detailing here matches the detailing on his hand guards, which is the only element not original to this particular outfit.
- There's two spots you can see what are most likely costume-department shortcuts/tricks to make the robe easier to deal with on camera (and thus should probably not be considered 'in-world'). One is that the gauze cloak attaches with a handful of snaps - most likely so they could switch out different versions depending on how dramatic they needed it to be. You can also see a set of waist ties across the back, underneath the gauze layer, which is most likely there to adjust fit and keep the front edges evenly open (consulted with a friend who works in costume departments on that one, heh).
- You can really only see this really clearly in behind-the-scenes videos, of which there are few, so this is a lot of guesswork on my part.
- To quote a friend who works in costuming departments, when I said I felt bad for the designers/fabricators because there's a whole bunch of details you never see at all in the show (even going frame-by-frame like I was):
Fabrics
- Main body is some sort of relatively matte plain-weave fabric - could be silk noil, could just be cotton or linen, could be a medium-weight wool. It's hard to say, other than it's not shiny at all.
- There's some bias-tape detailing on the body - looks to be the same material as the outerrobe trim.
- There are either brocade panels or embroidery butting up against the side seams - it only shows up when the light hits it correctly, which makes it really hard to determine details, unfortunately. Either silver on black or a really reflective metallic black on black, it's hard to say with so few images - when it's visible it looks silver, but the fact that it disappears so completely when it's not lit makes me think reflective black.
Construction
- The basic structure is similar to yuanlingpao - Tang-dynasty ones in particular, with the narrower sleeves and body, and the partially open collar. It does appear to have side slits, and possibly a back slit? But that one's hard to tell from the few times we see it.
- Genuinely deeply unsure what's going on with the collar. My initial thought was that it was just a half-open yuanlingpao collar, but the more I stare at it the more it seems like the collar wouldn't actually close in a way that's wearable - the shape of the 'lapel' isn't really right for it. As it stands, it looks sort of like a mashup of a yuanlingpao collar and a western style suit collar - you can see it fold up at the back of the neck the way a suit collar would.
- Rather than fastening with small buttons or fabric knots, the front appears to have a placket hiding the closures, like a modern-style jacket would. There is maybe a zipper underneath? Very uncertain on that one though.
- Shen Wei... may just be wearing his normal dress shoes under these robes??? Which I find faintly hilarious. Not 100% positive though because there's almost no good shots of them - they may be a different pair of black leather boots with very similar soles. YOU DECIDE.
- I can't speak to mask construction (not something I have much experience with) but as other people have pointed out, the black and silver mask is a color swap of Ye Zun's gold mask (and, notably, this is not the same one he wears in the past sequences)
- Handguards - and I say handguards very specifically, because they only cover the back of the hand with a wrist strap, with no attached wrist/forearm portion - are the same ones seen in his YOHE outfit. The appear to maybe be leather with couched designs on them? The wrist strap is fastened with snaps.
- Wrist wraps (?) - Okay, I am only like, 60% certain these are a seperate piece from the underrobe, just because the top edge doesn't seem to be continuous with the underrobe where they meet. They appear to be a sort of geometic pattern made out of strips of the bias trim from other parts of the outfit, and some sort of brocade that is either silver on black or metallic black on black (like the underrobe side panels). They... might fasten with zippers? There is something at the wrist that looks like a zipper pull, anyway.
- Belts are another element I can't speak to in huge detail, though the configuration shares a lot in common with Sam Browne belts (and thus also has a more modern look). As far as I can tell, other than belting in the underrobe, it's mostly just decorative - Shen Wei doesn't seem to have anything hanging off either belt. The cross-strap has an interesting geometic punched-out pattern that continues across the back, with some of the holes filled with small silver studs. There's also one larger triangular dark-gold stud, which is notable as the only bit of the outfit that isn't black or silver. There are some concho-like decorations spaced around the belt - none of them having anything attached to them, though presumably you could use these as attachment points to hang things off the belt.
- There is at least one more layer underneath, which I hope for Shen Wei's sake is a pair of loose pants, given he does some fairly high kicks in the few fight scenes he has, but I can't really tell you more than that.
I will probably do YOHE Heipaoshi at some point, though there are a lot more bits to that costume and a lot less footage of it so it probably won't be quite so detailed.
Outer Robe
- The bit with the actual hood, and honestly most of what we see (and thus what I have the most to talk about, haha)
Fabrics
- The main body fabric is a heavy fabric with a heavy, uneven weft. A friend suggested raw silk tussah, or the synthetic equivalent thereof, which seems the most likely, given the drape
- The main body fabric is also used to line the hood, and as facing strips on the front and sleeves
- In the less-exposed bits of the inside, it's using a cheap poly lining fabric (but if you wanted to be fancy, silk habotai or a silk-cotton blend would be fitting)
- Edges are finished with bias tape in what is either a very dull satin weave fabric, or a slightly lustrous plain weave fabric (like a habotai). This is also used for some spots of detailing on the main body (more on that later in construction notes)
- The yoke is also in a fabric with a similar finish to the bias trim (though I don't think it's quite the same fabric, going off where the trim butts against the yoke on the front).
- Coming off the back yoke, there's a seperate drapey cape piece, which is some type of gauze, either a cotton gauze or wool gauze
Construction
- Overall, the robe is kind of an interesting mix of traditional elements and fairly modern ones.
- Sleeves: very much a traditional shape, and designed for aesthetics rather than praticality (practical sleeves tend to be narrower, particularly around the wrist - it's possible to tie back longer sleeves like this, but we don't see Shen Wei do that)
- The hood is constructed in three pieces - the rounded side shapes, and then a big rectangular center panel. A good design strategy to get a nice full hood!
- As far as I can tell, the the gauze panel is loose overlay on top of a main-body fabric back panel that attaches to the sides (like how tops are generally constructed). Both layers do appear to have a center slit up the back, which gives you a little more freedom of movement (and also looks more dramatic).
- There are some interesting bits of bias trim on the body - at the edge of the yoke, and another strip around where the waistline would be. These seem to be just decorative, and read as very modern to me
- The detailing on the shoulders and hood is most likely a rayon cord that has been laid into shapes and then tacked into place - though there's also a possibility that it was done as a padded satin stitch, most likely on an embroidery machine (it's possible to get satin stitch that smooth by hand, but it requires a lot of skill and a lot of time). But there's bumps that definitely look like tack stitches.
- Also worth noting - the detailing here matches the detailing on his hand guards, which is the only element not original to this particular outfit.
- There's two spots you can see what are most likely costume-department shortcuts/tricks to make the robe easier to deal with on camera (and thus should probably not be considered 'in-world'). One is that the gauze cloak attaches with a handful of snaps - most likely so they could switch out different versions depending on how dramatic they needed it to be. You can also see a set of waist ties across the back, underneath the gauze layer, which is most likely there to adjust fit and keep the front edges evenly open (consulted with a friend who works in costume departments on that one, heh).
Underrobe
- You can really only see this really clearly in behind-the-scenes videos, of which there are few, so this is a lot of guesswork on my part.
- To quote a friend who works in costuming departments, when I said I felt bad for the designers/fabricators because there's a whole bunch of details you never see at all in the show (even going frame-by-frame like I was):
producers, actors, director, executives: this must be impeccable in every detail inside and out
camera, also director: we’re gonna shoot it out of focus through some trees and only use 3 seconds of the shot
alternately, director: we will never see this detail or anything below the waist don’t worry about it
also director: slow pan up from feet, object shot at waist, coat removed and held over arm
basically your best bet is to go with the detail just in case so... yeah
the fact people like you exist and do this both gives me hope and validation, and existential despair I will never get away with anything ever
Fabrics
- Main body is some sort of relatively matte plain-weave fabric - could be silk noil, could just be cotton or linen, could be a medium-weight wool. It's hard to say, other than it's not shiny at all.
- There's some bias-tape detailing on the body - looks to be the same material as the outerrobe trim.
- There are either brocade panels or embroidery butting up against the side seams - it only shows up when the light hits it correctly, which makes it really hard to determine details, unfortunately. Either silver on black or a really reflective metallic black on black, it's hard to say with so few images - when it's visible it looks silver, but the fact that it disappears so completely when it's not lit makes me think reflective black.
Construction
- The basic structure is similar to yuanlingpao - Tang-dynasty ones in particular, with the narrower sleeves and body, and the partially open collar. It does appear to have side slits, and possibly a back slit? But that one's hard to tell from the few times we see it.
- Genuinely deeply unsure what's going on with the collar. My initial thought was that it was just a half-open yuanlingpao collar, but the more I stare at it the more it seems like the collar wouldn't actually close in a way that's wearable - the shape of the 'lapel' isn't really right for it. As it stands, it looks sort of like a mashup of a yuanlingpao collar and a western style suit collar - you can see it fold up at the back of the neck the way a suit collar would.
- Rather than fastening with small buttons or fabric knots, the front appears to have a placket hiding the closures, like a modern-style jacket would. There is maybe a zipper underneath? Very uncertain on that one though.
Accessories
- Shen Wei... may just be wearing his normal dress shoes under these robes??? Which I find faintly hilarious. Not 100% positive though because there's almost no good shots of them - they may be a different pair of black leather boots with very similar soles. YOU DECIDE.
- I can't speak to mask construction (not something I have much experience with) but as other people have pointed out, the black and silver mask is a color swap of Ye Zun's gold mask (and, notably, this is not the same one he wears in the past sequences)
- Handguards - and I say handguards very specifically, because they only cover the back of the hand with a wrist strap, with no attached wrist/forearm portion - are the same ones seen in his YOHE outfit. The appear to maybe be leather with couched designs on them? The wrist strap is fastened with snaps.
- Wrist wraps (?) - Okay, I am only like, 60% certain these are a seperate piece from the underrobe, just because the top edge doesn't seem to be continuous with the underrobe where they meet. They appear to be a sort of geometic pattern made out of strips of the bias trim from other parts of the outfit, and some sort of brocade that is either silver on black or metallic black on black (like the underrobe side panels). They... might fasten with zippers? There is something at the wrist that looks like a zipper pull, anyway.
- Belts are another element I can't speak to in huge detail, though the configuration shares a lot in common with Sam Browne belts (and thus also has a more modern look). As far as I can tell, other than belting in the underrobe, it's mostly just decorative - Shen Wei doesn't seem to have anything hanging off either belt. The cross-strap has an interesting geometic punched-out pattern that continues across the back, with some of the holes filled with small silver studs. There's also one larger triangular dark-gold stud, which is notable as the only bit of the outfit that isn't black or silver. There are some concho-like decorations spaced around the belt - none of them having anything attached to them, though presumably you could use these as attachment points to hang things off the belt.
- There is at least one more layer underneath, which I hope for Shen Wei's sake is a pair of loose pants, given he does some fairly high kicks in the few fight scenes he has, but I can't really tell you more than that.
I will probably do YOHE Heipaoshi at some point, though there are a lot more bits to that costume and a lot less footage of it so it probably won't be quite so detailed.
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...I also really love the idea of Hei Pao Shi running around in Shen Wei's shoes.
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Haha, I am well-used to the art of going through videos frame by frame looking for specific details - though I went a little overboard and probably have 50+ screencaps of like, neck-up shots with very little variation.
I'm so torn on the shoes because on one hand, there's a few blurry distance shots where it looks like they might have some sort of side detailing his dress boots don't? But on the other hand the soles/heels seem to match, and wood heels like that aren't standard on men's boots.
Also I just really like the idea of like, Zhu Hong figuring out the secret identity thing on the basis of shoes and being tactful and not saying anything.
(worth noting - it does always seem to be the same pair of black boots for HPS, regardless of what Shen Wei is wearing before he transforms - he's got different, slightly-more-mountain-suitable shoes in the Hanga eps, but is still wearing the black boots as HPS)
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(At least for once I'm going to be working on a project that isn't entirely drawn/CGI. There's an actual physical product! It has to work somehow and have human proportions!)
Ahhhh so maybe it's more like Shen Wei is raiding HPS's shoe closet! And Zhu Hong is sitting there like, "You think you're being subtle... but you're not."
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I use VLC for my screencapping, mostly because it's easy to bind a keyboard shortcut to the screenshot command, and because it's got a bunch of tools to control video speed - if you use VLC, View - Advanced Controls will toggle a toolbar with the frame-by-frame button (looks like a | with a play arrow after it), and then I have my toolbars customized to show the step forward/step back buttons and the speed controls so that I can skim through sections easily and then slow down playback on sections I want to cap. Only downside is that I've noticed if you play around with speed too much, sometimes VLC just straight-up hangs, probably due to a memory issue or something.
This is only my second time doing costume analysis for something that was actually physically made (I thought it was the first but I checked my archives and remembered I did the live action version of Saitou from Kenshin :') ) - most of my stuff is animanga so it's like, scraping together what details I can and then figuring out which of those are actually physically possible and which are a fiction of the artist's imagination (and in rare cases, get things where the designer has actually put thought into materials and design details - video game stuff seems to be better about this for some reason). I do kind of want to make YOHE Heipaoshi even though 1) lol obscure and 2) I don't think I could talk my cosplay partner into Kunlun (she is also 6" shorter than me, but that's what lifts are for - we made it work for Saiyuki)
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Ohhhhh I wanted to do YOHE Heipaoshi too! I really love that look. But alas, I have issues with long hair, so that's probably not going to happen. I'm a little jelly that you actually have a cosplay partner to do things with, ha.
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Oof yeah, screencapping from web sources gets really iffy - I did it at one point for some Voltron stuff from Netflix and a bunch of the stuff didn't even like, render properly to file? Like everything else was there and then the video area just had weird black sections. Thankfully![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
solo
has uploaded video files for Guardian (there's a link in the comments on
one of the resource posts, I don't have it offhand sadly) and a bunch of
people have done fairly extensive screencapping already, even if it's not
always of bits useful for cosplay things.
Honestly at least part of what might get me to do it is that I already have a nice black lacefront wig I've used for two other costumes already - otherwise the cost of that would probably be enough to put me off. It's definitely nice to have a cosplay partner, particularly because we have very similar tastes in stories and characters, so we're pretty happy to drag each other into new fandoms and ships. I haven't gotten her into Guardian yet but it's next on our watchlist - I predict Ye Zun will be a fave because she is very fond of 'had a justifiable reason for revenge and then proceeded to take it way too far', haha. I do sometimes wish I could drag more people together to do bigger groups but that involves a level of being connected in the community that I don't have the energy for.
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A nice long black wig can get used and restyled for so many things! So useful. All of my cosplaying friends are far away and don't always get their acts together, so it's hard to make any plans. I really miss cosplay and cons though.
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I vaguely recall having similar issues with Youtube at one point in the past, so I think some of it may just be the way that browser-based video players render or something.
I have... a number of black wigs. At least three long ones and... probably four or five short ones. Granted, I have a lot of wigs in general (side effect of twenty years of cosplay), but a few of the black ones and a really nice curly red one are the ones I've gotten the most use out of, I think. Most of my other friends who cosplay aren't in my fandoms, and aren't as deeply neurotic as me and Andy are, so mostly it's just the two of us. I'm also missing cons, though my wallet is rejoicing - turns out that's where the bulk of my disposable income goes, lol.
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Ah yeah that makes it tough - I have one con I'm staff at, and that's the one that's like... exclusively the most casual and comfy cosplays I have, nothing new.
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lol of course I do - here's a bunch in a zip file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hVBlPuxExPXr2Cr1AtXyDWuwESsigwQF/view?usp=sharing
(some of the hand caps are from his YOHE outfit, but that's the one piece he actually carries over)
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I'm just glad my apparently-1.5 GB of screen caps is handy XD
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post icon: shitty goth dad Sometimes 'good enough' is in fact good enough, particularly these days when half the people cosplaying just buy their whole outfits off AliExpress.
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I am a great big textile nerd, so I am happy to share :D
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You're welcome!
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Honestly I wasn't expecting the zippers either, and it's definitely not something you'd notice unless you're looking for it very deliberately - but after many many years of cosplay I try to keep an eye out for things that seem out of place (which was the wrist zipper pulls - I thought they might be chains/bracelets or something at a first glance, and went digging). And it's always useful to try and figure out closures (and then when it's stuff that's drawn, proceed to cry inside when you realize the artist didn't bother to draw like, a front seam or anything)
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You're welcome! It was fun to go over the videos, even if actually formatting all the screencaps was a little bit time-consuming.
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You're welcome! I hope people find some use/inspiration from it!
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Honestly I am always down to nerd out about textiles, and if it helps out other people, so much the better!
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You're welcome!
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Also yes I think Shen Wei just wears his usual shoes. :D
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There are! I'm still like 'PLEASE GIVE ME MORE SHOTS OF THE BROCADE SIDE PANELS' but alas I am probably out of luck there.
I am like 99% sure they're separate, because I am pretty sure I have at least one cap where you can see a sliver of bare wrist (though I will have to go double-check), and the handguards are the same as his YOHE ones, which don't have a forearm portion.
In fairness they are very nice shoes - I definitely had a moment of 'I'd like a pair like those' before reminding myself that I already have too many shoes for someone who wears two pairs of shoes like 90% of the time (and those two are a pair of slip-on Vans and a pair of Birkenstocks. In my heart I would love to dress more like Shen Wei but on a day to day basis I do not have the energy)
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Honestly Ye Zun would raid gege's closet - though now I kind of wonder if those are just like... Zhu Yilong's shoes or something, ahaha. Guess they spent all the budget on the suits.
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I bet - in one of the BTS videos I grabbed for caps, you can see Zhu Yilong with the mask off and hood down and he looks extremely Done. Also some major hood hair, haha.
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You're welcome!